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NeoNotes — Deserved to be heroes

While I believe that these people have been manipulated, the rule of law is not absolute and beyond question. There are some real issues here that we all need to examine, starting with the militarization of police forces and why we keep expecting police to enforce so many procedural laws.

No, this wasn't the best way to air their grievances. But some laws have been written so that the politicos can ignore their grievances.



This isn't about racism.

There have been generations of people who've been taught that they were born victims and all they had to do was shut up and vote Democrat, then things would get better. Police have become the most visible sign of government oppression.

You're fighting the perception here. For politics built on revolution, there always needs to be a "good fight." The Democrats are the ones who need victims, but the image of "The Man" has always been been conservative and pale-skinned.

I give the Republic's chance of survival about one in three. That's if everyone has "skin" in the game.



If "racism" were the only factor, I might agree. But many things are coming to a head. Watch for a currency collapse.



That's part of the issue yes.

But it's not so black and white as all that. You have to look at how government and "public" action made a criminal culture desirable. People respond to incentives. If the only way they can find power and pride is by breaking the law, then the strongest will do exactly that.



No, it's not black and white. The media sells it's products through headlines, not mind control.

Government on the other hand sells it's "products" through proclaiming crisis and emergencies.

A call for "law and order" can contribute just as much to problem as accusations of racism. In fact, they tend to reinforce each other in a feedback loop.



Well, that depends on if you like the idea of no-knock SWAT raids at the wrong address…

Part of the problem is unaccountable police forces armed with "surplus" military gear.

Part of the problem is the laws we demand they enforce. Eric Garner was breaking the law. He was selling loose cigarettes. How many people want to talk about the NYC cigerette tax? Between the state and the city, the tax is $5.95 per pack. That's a pretty big incentive to break the law.



The reason I brought up the DOI is because the institution of government is not infallible. The rule of law is just another tyranny if the government is corrupt.

It's not enough to demand that law be enforced. Without a way to make a meaningful difference, people lose their rights. Why should they participate when they don't have a choice?



Yes.

Just as they were taught.

And shame on us for letting that happen.



We let it happen.

We bought the lie that compassion triumphs practicality. We "accepted" that "blacks" deserved more privileges because of history. We let generations be victims when they deserved to be heroes.



*shrugs*

So you don't have culpability but they have to obey the law.

Hmm.



That depends on the politicos you voted for and what they did in your name, doesn't it?



So you fault folks for breaking laws that you want nothing to do with.

Pardon, but that doesn't seen to have anything to do with the rule of law.



Actually depending on the city, it does matter if the accused is black or white.

Just like the alcohol laws are not nearly as severe as the drug laws.



In Maricopa county in Arizona, there is a headline-grabbing racist sheriff. It's so bad that people can be arrested for "driving while brown." There are judges who push for the harshest sentences. I've seen it happen.

It's no great leap to assume that it happens to "blacks," Koreans, Hopi, or Italians. Historically it's happened, and we do happen to be the most diverse nation on the face of the planet.

In a nation that threatens garden supply stores for selling too many grow lights or confiscates your income tax refund because you didn't enroll in overpriced government mandated health insurance, why should we be surprised that government abuses power?



Not just the violent crime or drug crime.

A few months ago I was surprised to learn how much communities around St. Louis depend on fines for their revenues. In many cases it's well over 30%, and those fines are paid mostly by lower class families.

Scary stuff. And another reason to distrust police.



Yes I am.

But when our nation excuses people from personal responsibility, you'd better believe it's our responsibility.



And why are those elected officials still elected officials?

The fact is that there aren't that many responsible people. Many of those look the other way when it's their Congressman or city councilman. As a Arizona citizen, I've been asking since the Keating 5 scandal how John McCain is still a Senator.

If you'll check my posts you'll see I'm not apologizing for anyone. I am saying that the "system" and the rule of law have been corrupted. We let that happen.

You can't trust the system to watch itself. Government is not your friend.



Offhand I can think of several reasons we should not.

I'd say that we should oppose any law that opposes liberty. Like those "free speech areas" that keep popping up.

The Constitution is a contract. If government doesn't honor the Constitution, then why should we honor the government.



It's not about racism and it's not about slavery. It's about power.

Specifically the assumption behind certain laws that people weren't capable of making their own decisions.

These laws are incredibly widespread, every thing from cosmetology requirements for commercial hair braiding to the number of taxi medallions to laws governing in home child care. That doesn't even cover things like the minimum wage or the "War On Drugs."



Well neighbor, what say we move that other fellow where he can't hurt anyone else?



It doesn't matter if it's a lie, it matters what they see as the truth. This isn't a rational argument, they won't accept an "answer" that doesn't give the perception that they can take back power for themselves.

The problem you see is not the problem they see.



I think they can be reached, I just think we should appeal to their passion as well as their reason.

Probably more passion than reason.



I'm not so ready to give up on them.

If we're not wise enough to show them reason using passion, we're doing it wrong.

And we're locking the law into whoever has the biggest guns.

I don't want to live like that.



You misunderstand.

I said that the government is not infallible simply by virtue of it being government. The Founders knew that, that's why the DOI exists in the first place.

There's an old idea, one that isn't discussed much today. Jurors used to be told that it was their duty to judge both the accused and the law.

http://fija.org

All I'm saying is that before we call up the troops and issue demands for law and order, we should look at the laws and the impact on these communities.



And if the only answer you're willing to accept is their imprisonment at the point of a gun, then tell me.

Why should they even talk to you?



That is of course your choice.

I'm just saying that this is not a simple situation that happened overnight. I'm also saying that there are certain progressive "leaders" who are more than willing to tell folks what conservatives "really" mean.

Just like they have been for decades.



The truth is that many actors on "both" sides are manipulating the story so they can get more power.

There are more than two sides.

That's one reason why we must accept that government is not infallible. Nor are it's agents.



I don't think you can trust politicos, especially not professional politicos.

Government is not your friend.

As far as illegal force used by a minority, it has worked out in just a few cases. The most recognized "noble" example is probably the American Revolution. A less "noble" one was in November 1979.

The difference is that I think the table stakes have gotten much, much, much higher.

NeoNotes are the selected comments that I made on other boards, in email, or in response to articles where I could not respond directly.
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